SEASON 2 EPISODE 2 with

Episode Transcript +

How sandwiches support first responders

A conversation with Firehouse Subs’ Don Fox

Season 2, Episode 2

Guest: Don Fox, CEO of Firehouse Subs

AARON KWITTKEN: Broadcasting from the 10 Hudson Square Building, home of WNYC Radio here in Soho, New York, welcome to Brand on Purpose, the podcast dedicated to uncovering the untold stories behind the most impactful purpose-driven companies.

My guest today is Don Fox, CEO of Firehouse Subs. So, I think that Don is probably the epitome of what my friend Rob Butcher from Swim Across America recently said would be a servant leader. I’m going to steal that term.

Don’s an incredible person. He runs Firehouse Subs, which is a fast-casual restaurant. You’ll have to explain to me what fast-casual means, but I think I know what that means. But what’s most important is that Firehouse Subs cares about the quality of its service to a greater good, just as much as the quality of the product.

So, Don’s been in the restaurant business for about 45 years. He started first washing dishes at a local restaurant before moving on to positions at Six Flags and Burger King for 25 of those 45 years. He joined Firehouse Subs in 2003 when the company had just 65 restaurants and became CEO in 2009.

Overseeing an incredible amount of growth from Firehouse Subs, now selling sandwiches at more than 1,100 locations across the country. Many people may not know that Firehouse Subs is actually more than just a sandwich company, which is why I’m having them on Brand on Purpose today.

So just as an example, in the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina in 2005, the founders created the Firehouse Subs Public Safety Foundation. Since then, this foundation has donated more than $44 million dollars to buy life saving equipment for first responders, public safety education, disaster relief and to aid military veterans.

And if that’s not enough, Don’s involved in a wide range of business ventures outside of Firehouse Subs and, of course, in his community he’s incredibly philanthropic. He’s an investor for the Restaurant Leadership Council, and for Creator, which is a restaurant start up that uses a burger cooking robot, anytime I say robot, like that, made to order burgers.

He’s also a published author, and a board member for Treehouse Eyes, the first company devoted to exclusively treating myopia in children. Both inside and outside his role at Firehouse Subs, Don commits living a life of purpose and supporting innovative and impactful brands. Don Fox, welcome to Brand on Purpose, and hopefully I didn’t make you blush too much.

DON FOX: Thanks very much Aaron. You did, but nobody can see it so that’s a good thing. And I just want to say up front how delighted I am to be able to speak about the aspect of our brand, and in many respects, my life, that I enjoy speaking about that much which is giving back. So thanks very much for the invitation.

AK: Well, and also we talked a little bit earlier before we went on air because I’ve actually never been into a Firehouse Subs, ‘cause there’s none near me, yet, but maybe we can change that after this podcast. But, I promise to because I travel a lot. And my only experience, really that’s relatable, and I think I mentioned to you is, I was wearing a bright green shirt delivering Blimpie sandwiches in the mid-80’s. But I know that Firehouse Subs is much better than Blimpie’s.

DF: Absolutely. Doesn’t need much more commentary from me on that account.

AK: Right, so I know you’ve been in the business a long time, and I’m sorry to have dated you by saying you’ve been doing this for 45 years in multiple roles. But tell me a little bit about why you joined Firehouse Subs, but also it sounds like your joining, not coincidentally, coincided with a pivot of the brand and the company to becoming more purpose driven.

DF: Certainly. I had spent over 20 years with Burger King Corporation. To be completely candid, I was let go from Burger King, that happens to people, reorganizations, you move on. And…

AK: But just on that though, I mean, that’s the best thing that ever happened because had you not been let go, you wouldn’t have been able to give back the way you give back in your role at Firehouse Subs.

DF: Without a doubt. At the time, it never seems that way but, indeed, it turned out to be the best thing that could’ve happened. I went, though, from what was the second largest restaurant company in the world at that time, to a relative start-up, only nine years old at that point, with Firehouse with 65 restaurants the day that I walked in the door. Slow start contrast to the world that I left.

Now, when I joined in 2003, the Firehouse Subs Public Safety Foundation didn’t exist yet, but, certainly, the culture of living did exit within the brand, and that was ‘cause of the founders and partners, Robin Sorenson and Chris Sorenson, 2 firefighter brothers who started it along with their partner Steven Jost, had always been committed to giving back to their community.

And in those initial years, that came in the form of supporting the Muscular Dystrophy Association. They’re well known for their connections to the Firefighting community, especially the fundraising that they do in the fall of every year around Labor Day. Habitat for Humanity, that was another charity that they were very closely involved with. So that was in their DNA from the beginning.

And I would add, part of that stems from just being in public service, in public safety, giving back in some form or fashion all the time. But as you mentioned in the intro, in 2005, after we became involved in a relief effort, that changed the trajectory of our philanthropy. We had some heavy discussions after that event and felt that we had an opportunity to do something with our philanthropy that had a closer connection to the brand.

Hence, the Firehouse Subs Public Safety Foundation was born and the main mission was donated or, better said, fulfilling grant requests from first responder entities to give them the vital equipment and services they need to help save the lives of others and often to help save and protect their own lives as first responders.

So fast forward from the genesis in late 2005, and we’ve fulfilled over $44 million dollars in grants, more types of equipment than I can ever recount and what’s fascinating is, we only know a fraction of the stories that ultimately play out in terms of the lives that would have been saved. We know every time that we donate a piece of equipment, it’s going to save multiple lives. We don’t track it, per say, we just know it’s out there.

So when the stories come back to us over time, it’s some of the constant fuel that you need to know what a difference you’re making. And some of the most compelling stories, by the way, and the ones that further motivate all of our team are events where that equipment has directly touched someone in the Firehouse Subs family.

One of the famous episodes several years ago happened in the Pensacola Florida area. Right before the end of the year, we donated a jaws-of-life extraction tool to a local fire department, and just a few days later, right before New Years, it got put to use for the first time to rescue two young men from a car that was wrapped around a tree. One was severely injured. Turned out, those were two Firehouse Subs employees for one of our franchisees in Pensacola.

AK: Wow. It’s a franchise business, right?

DF: Primarily franchised, yes. We have 38 restaurants we own and operate in northeast Florida and Des Moines, Iowa but we franchise everywhere else, so almost 1170 franchise units, 45 states and Canada, 26 restaurants up in the Toronto area.

AK: So, how do you get the ones that you don’t own, that aren’t owned and operated by yourselves, how do you inspire and, programmatically, get them on board with the purpose behind, besides, obviously, selling more sandwiches ‘cause there’s something that’s a much greater mission here. How do you do that? ‘Cause I can’t imagine that’s easy.

DF: One of the things that was critical at the point that we created the foundation, and this was something I drew on from my experience with Burger King, which I learned a lot during my 23 years with Burger King and sometimes the most valuable lessons you learn are what not to do, that’s with all due respect to the folks at Burger King over the years.

But Burger King was a pretty philanthropic company too, from my experience. I saw that firsthand, particularly when I worked in Miami at the world headquarters. But they were mostly well known, at the time, I think it’s changed some since then favorably. Back then, they were mostly known for what they did in the Miami community. Their efforts didn’t extend out into the franchise system in the thousands of restaurants and that’s not to say that the franchisees may not have done things on their own.

Restauranteurs are pretty giving people, generally, they’re usually the first businesses that somebody’s knocking on for a sponsorship or things of that sort, but they weren’t known system wide for their efforts. So when we started drafting the plan for the Firehouse Subs Public Safety Foundation, one of the, really, the first primary recommendation that I made, I was, I was the CEO at that point, I said, “Look, this has got to be something that every franchisee feels a part of, that every community in our system is a part of. That has to be at the very foundation. This can’t be something that were just doing in Jacksonville and raising money here or helping just this community. So as we structure it, every step of the way, this has to be about the franchisee.”

So, for example, as the grants are awarded the local franchisee becomes the centerpiece to that. First of all, there’s a good chance that the grants going into that area because they’ve done a superlative job of fundraising in their restaurants. I should point out that the equipment that we buy, the grants that we fulfill cant be done with our customers. Our customers contribute, in any given year, 60-70% of the funds that come in and the balance from us and our vender partners.

Our employees also, here at our headquarters, are great contributors to it. So it really takes the franchisee’s commitment in their units to help with their customer base to help raise the funds. We have a variety of ways we raise funds in the restaurants. So they’re very committed on that end, but it’s extremely important that the franchisee becomes the hero, if you will, when the donations are being done back in the community.

So we channel a lot of public relations effort into those events, try to bring as much media attention to it as we can. It helps further the cause, as we’ll probably talk about before we finish. It ends up being really great for business, but it’s not why we created the foundation. We discovered along the way, how beneficial it was and in getting the word out it’s beneficial, not just for the business, but the two things are symbiotic. The more successful the business is, the more successful the charity is. What we discovered is the more successful the charity is, the more successful the business is.

It’s a constant circle of success between the two components of the brand. So the franchisees, the majority of them, the vast majority of them are committed to it because they’re great people and what better feeling can there be to be supporting their community that way? Some franchisees, especially in recent years, join us primarily for that reason.

That’s the differentiator between us and choosing another brand. They know that by coming with us, they’ve got an instant way to be involved. But, if I have franchisees who aren’t as committed, at the very least, I urge them to be committed because it’s great for their business. And that tends to be a sway point for some, and eventually when it comes a little closer to home with the donations or a story like I told about the employees being saved, most people will eventually come around to the pure altruistic reasons for being committed to it.

AK: Well, and it sounds like the vast majority of your franchisees are on board, but you’ll always have a few. To say that that commitment to purpose and to your program is non-negotiable might be a little aggressive, but it sounds like they’re being voluntold, like, “Hey, if you’re going to sign up with us, this is who we are.” It’s not just part of branding, it’s part of our core essence.

DF: It is. And it really is a non-negotiable in this sense. Our mission statement, I know mission statements can seem cliché or (inaudible) but things are clichés for a reason because they’re true. So having a concise, clear mission statement is critical for any brand or company and ours is to carry on our commitment to, and our passion for, hearty and flavorful food, heartfelt service and public safety. If you’re going to be part of the team, if you’re going to be successful on the team, you don’t have the luxury of picking two of the three things.

So yeah, I’m going to be a foodie, I’m going to have great, over the top customer service. And those are the two ingredients most customers are looking for when they walk in off the street. But we know, from our experience and our research and all our analytics, that those two out of three aren’t enough. The, as we call it, public safety and the mission statement but, that’s about our philanthropy through the public safety foundation. If you’re really going to enjoy success you have to embrace all three. And, by the way, the same thing applies to all three of those elements.

You can’t decide with our brand that well, I’m going to be devoted to heartfelt service and the charity but eh, I’m not going to be as concerned about making great subs. No, it’s not going to work. It takes all three elements and we, uh, do a great amount of work on the dashboards that we use, measuring the key performance indicators that relate to those three things, so every operator always know exactly where they stand on all three elements of that mission statement.

We know where we’re performing as a brand against those critical components, those three things, and we know how every individual restaurant is performing. So the old saying people respect what you inspect and we certainly inspect and expect that people are going to be committed in our system.

AK: Right. It’s similar to you can’t manage what you can’t measure, or something similar to that. Are Chris and Robin still firefighters, are they volleys now or is that passed in their career?

DF: Many years have passed since their firefighting days. Chris remained in the fire department. Chris is the older brother and he had the most service, I believe, over 15 years of service at the time he started Firehouse and stayed on for the first four or five years after they opened the first restaurant. And then, eventually, had to be full time.

But he, quite famously within our brand story, was 24 hours on in the station and is 48 hours off. So he would work at Firehouse, open and close with his brother, and go back to the fire station for his net 24-hour shift. Rinse and repeat like that for four or five years. Robin had a little less time on the, I mean, a handful of years, and somebody had to do the restaurant full time at the start. So Robin was that guy from the beginning, working the restaurant 24/7, open to close everyday.

So the two of them tag teamed. This was very much a family business with the first restaurant. Their mom, their dad, sisters, everybody was pitching in and helping in some way. And really having that sense of community, family, firefighter camaraderie, they baked all that in from the beginning.

So, fast forward to today, and of course their role in the business has changed quite a bit. They’re principal owners of the company, and they tend to focus and spend their time on the things that they’re particularly good at and they enjoy. So they’re both foodies. They are still heavily involved with the menu development. I have a conventional research and development and culinary team here, but they work very close with Robin and Chris.

There’s literally not an item that goes into the restaurants that they haven’t put their personal stamp of approval on. Whether that’s a food item, a packaging, whatever’s going to touch the consumer, they have input on and play a key role with.

And, the area that they’re involved in even more than that is the Firehouse Subs Public Safety Foundation. So they’re very heavily involved on the board of that foundation. It’s managed separately from the brand. We have an executive director role, but it’s detached from the main brand, if you will, operating as a 501c3. And they’re very, very closely linked with that work.

I think it’s fair to say that, after all these years, what’s happened with Firehouse Subs Public Safety Foundation was perhaps the least expected outcome. And at the same time also, the most rewarding. We’ve coined a phrase here that the foundation is the heart of Firehouse Subs. And it’s been very true and when it’s all said and done and I think I can safely safe on Robin and Chris’ behalf, that’s the part of the brand story that they’re most proud of.

AK: So, I’ve done some work in kind of restaurant retail over the years and I know that the likes of, and maybe Burger King was like this as well, but McDonald’s, razor thin margins. I remember a lot of the owners had to own 10, 12, 15 restaurants in order to really make it a go. They’re razor thin, 2-3% margins. I don’t know, and I wouldn’t expect to ask you what your margins are but I am curious for others that are listening who might be in fast casual, how do you maintain purpose, raise funds, build a foundation, maintain a successful profitable business, ‘cause you have to make profits in order to survive and at the same time, give back the way you do?

DF: I think that its very important that just as you imply or, basically, directly said, you have to have a successful business, so at the core of it, often that has to be what comes for, I think it’s extraordinarily admirable when someone starts a company or a brand and it’s rooted in charity from the start. That is the ultimate leap of faith, frankly.

But what happens with most brands is, they have a very entrepreneurial beginning, very focused on the due diligence and the hard work it takes to build a company and a brand, and if philanthropy, more often than not, follows down the line. ‘Cause you’ve got that firm foundation underneath you. Certainly, that was the case for Firehouse, even though I mentioned earlier they were involved in some other philanthropy.

It was a far cry from what happens when you start your own foundation and it is so embedded in the brand the way it is today. So, I think it is important to think first things first, and by the way, at the same time, we always have to remind ourselves, while the philanthropy is a game changer and it does encourage greater loyalty and greater visitation among a lot of our guests, you can’t say that empirically about every guest.

I mean, in the end, you have to remember, you’re a restaurant. And on any given day, probably the majority of people coming in, they’re there for a sandwich. And they’re there for an experience and all the things that are important about the restaurant business have to be in order. It is a business, an industry of relatively thin margins. I mean, I’m not gonna, just to speak about it more generally, I’ll put on my National Restaurant Association Board Member hat, it’s my 7th year on the board of directors for the National Restaurant Association.

AK: The other NRA, the one that’s less controversial.

DF: The other NRA, yeah.

AK: Right. I get it.

DF: I’m not making the adjustment one way or the other but it gets confusing. So with the typical restaurant in the US, the pretax profit is about 5%. Now, Firehouse is better than that, fortunately, but for the average restaurateur, that’s the number: 5%. So you’ve got to be extraordinarily disciplined. If you’re going to survive in the is business you have to know the fundamentals and it’s not just making good food and so on, you’ve got to know that science of operating restaurants, operating them well, especially if you’re going to move 10% or better EBITDA.

But the interplay with philanthropy here is key for us. Even in times when we maybe we’ve had some business struggles, back during the recession, things were tight. We suffered sales to (inaudible) in restaurants, but we never lost our focus on the philanthropy. We already had started to discover how that was additive to the business. So because things got tight or lean, that was not a place that we thought we could cut down our effort. Or where that would be beneficial in any way.

So we stayed relentlessly focused on it. And, I tell you what was a critical moment for us. We had, by about 2011, we had internally established that the restaurants in our system that raised the most money, well that was a great way to view the franchise’s commitment, the great fundraising restaurants were there because the crewmembers were asking customers to round up, for example.

Whether we’re selling our empty (inaudible) pails for $3, but that takes action on the part of the restaurant. So we can look at the amount of funds raised as a percentage of the sales and that tells us about the commitment of the franchisee. And what we saw, in looking at several years of data, was that the restaurants that were most committed to that and raised the highest amount of dollars as a percentage of their sales consistently, as a group, out-performed the least committed restaurant.

And we’re able to track that too, we know who was raising the least amount of money. So, we started benchmarking the top 10% vs. the bottom 10% and for many years, the difference in average unit buying in sales volume between those two groups was in the range of 20-25% difference in sales. So as I was speaking on this topic, at the National Restaurant Association annual show in Chicago, and in the audience was a professor from Cornell University, and they were seeking to do a study on the topic of the connection between philanthropy and business, and they heard my presentation and I was citing that rather than what I would call, basic research that we had done, and they approached me after I had done my talk and asked if they could do a much more in depth study on our brand on this topic.

And of course we said, “Absolutely, we’ll give you every bit of data that we have.” And they looked at every variable imaginable and when they came back to us after completing that exhaustive study, there was one key conclusion. The number one factor, the factor with the highest correlation with sales performance, was the commitment to the foundation as measured by the fundraising effort that we’ve done.

That bit of empirical research then became the biggest catalyst that we had going forward that made it the non-negotiable. No matter what ever happens to our brand trajectory we just would never walk away from.

AK: Well, and I imagine that in your recruitment and marketing materials for franchisees, you probably focus on that, you cite that study?

DF: We absolutely do. Because if we ever had a franchise candidate that came in today that we didn’t feel was willing to make a commitment, in that either we didn’t see in their background a commitment to giving back to a community. Or more importantly, everybody’s perhaps given all of their lives.

Or at the very least, we want to see that their awareness of the brand coming to speak to us, at the very least, creates an epiphany of sorts where they say “Oh boy, I love this, and this is one of the reasons, at least, that I want to be involved with the brand.” If we don’t have that sense from the candidate that they’re in that camp then it’s somebody that we’re not going to move forward with.

AK: Yeah, I also think that the same leadership and sales skills and gumption that’s required of someone who can run a very successful business, most likely, can be applied to, and you’re seeing it firsthand, to also focusing in on and using the foundation as a core part and tenant of their brand. It comes down to the person.

DF: Absolutely. Because then we’ll also, not only are they going to work with their guests, but for those who are most committed, they’re also going out into their community and they’re establishing relationships with all the first responders. Those franchisees that are committed, they want the fire department or the police department in their community to apply for a grant.

Nothing that they like seeing more than a donation being done in their community, that, that’s the pay off, if you will. And, it’s the payoff to their guests! They have guests that have been contributing thousands of dollars in any given year. Or some are top fundraisers in our system will have collected $30 to $35 thousand dollars in a year in donations from their guests. And you really want to be able to do everything that you can to return that back to the people who, to the community, that helped you raise those funds.

AK: You’re staying pretty safe in terms of your focus on the give-back, you’re talking about first responders, public safety education, disaster relief, aid to vets. You’re definitely going to kind of more sensitive territory when it comes to hiring ex-prisoners. How do you feel about the likes of other organizations like, say, Starbucks, where they have a founder who has been very vocal about hiring 10,000 immigrants. You take a stand against social injustice and stuff like that.

I guess the question really is, now that you’ve had so much time, both in the business, your role at the National Restaurant Association, your role at Firehouse Subs, I’m just kind of curious, more socially, how you feel about what issue to tackle and the impact it could have on the brand and where the blowback could be, as well. It’s very interesting, and maybe it’s just interesting to us big PR and reputation management nerds, but I’m kind of curious ‘cause you’ve had so much experience in this.

DF: Sure. And I guess there’s two aspects of it that I’d like to tackle. One is that, I'm going to go back to my perspective of over 45 years in this industry. If I flash back to my earlier years to the 70s, the 80s perhaps even into the 90s. If you go back in time and talk to people in positions of power and influence in business. And you’re talking about companies with some of the, I’m just going to say it, purpose-driven companies. They would have, I’m just going to try to not exaggerate too much, but I think it’s fair to say, they would have scoffed at the idea. Oh that’s warm and fuzzy and soft and that’s not what business is about. They’re going to fail. I think they would have really turned their nose up at those ideas. Especially directly in linking things back to the business.

So I think one of the greatest things to see, over the course of the last 20-25 years, is the greater success of companies that embrace a greater purpose, and they’re more successful than the companies that don’t. And I’m saying that, I’m making a general statement in that. I don’t have all the facts and figures in front of me but l’ll tell you what. It’s much more common than not to hear about companies that are succeeding because of it.

And that’s really refreshing and I think that’s a great sign for society and it’s a great sign of where the consumer’s heads are at. Now, taking it down to the issues, and so on. I think that most brands step into the issues that they support as, not so much a matter of calculation, but usually there’s a history behind it. If you think about the great work that McDonald’s has done with Ronald McDonald House. That was not a brand-driven, and as I said, it’s not something that’s coming out of a book, where their headquarters was at the time. That was a franchisee-driven idea.

Interestingly enough, just a timely, in Baltimore, if you think about all the, as I understand the story, I shouldn’t speak for McDonald’s, but as I understand it was a franchisee in Baltimore, I believe, that created the Ronald McDonald House. Well, that’s the centerpiece of brand giving back, but it wasn’t started for that reason. And I think that’s the case in most instances. There’s a backstory, just like there’s a backstory of Firehouse to the foundation. So, and I think if a brand chooses a charity purely as a business device and that’s the background story to it, I’d say there’s a good chance you’re not going to be successful.

AK: So, on that note, are you guys Coke or Pepsi?

DF: We pour Coke.

AK: Ok, so I can mention this. So, I think what’s interesting too is, I believe companies need to have some sort of implicit permission or sometimes explicit permission to be able to lean into an issue. So, the very famous disaster of Kendall Jenner offering the police officer a Pepsi, right? ‘Cause Pepsi thinks it can solve social justice issues through a commercial. They don’t really have permission and they certainly don’t have necessarily, the right, in a consumer’s mind to be able to tackle that.

Whereas you have Firehouse Subs, where the two guys that founded the company are former firefighters. And they founded it based on, they want to get people with firefighter-sized appetites the food that they deserve. That’s cool. To then, link that to things that are related to the founding, when it comes to public safety education, disaster relief and first responders, that makes complete sense. You have more than permission. You almost have a responsibility to do that. And I think that’s what excited me about the brand and what you guys have done.

DF: In a word, it’s authentic. And we’re also blessed with, in terms of that being our philanthropic avenue, is that unlike hundreds or thousands of other fantastic charities, one thing that makes our effort unique is that, unlike most charities, it has the very real world potential every single day to touch every single person.

There’s not a person in America, over 300 million people, that on any given day may not need the help of a first responder. No matter what walk of life they’re in, no matter what their income is, it doesn’t matter. It has the potential to help save a life or change somebody’s life so that’s very unique, again, just more by coincidence, and going back to our brand story. But it’s something that I think every brand would wish for, if they could.

One thing I’ll also say on this topic, you go back and look at this company, this brand and it has a background story to its philanthropy. I agree with you, sometimes when you use the example that you did, the Jenner commercial, sometimes I scratch my head over where companies are going, especially when they’re putting it in their advertising in particular.

Like, walk the talk, walk the talk with what you do. But to put it into the messaging, and especially for substantive companies, they don’t do that by accident, that comes with, one would presume, reams of research and so on. You think about Nike and the controversies surrounding them, forget about one side of the issue or another, it would be foolish to think that those are not tremendously calculated moves on the brand’s part.

AK: Oh, sure, I mean, Nike, it’s been reported that Nike has made about $7 billion dollars from that Colin Kaepernick commercial and campaign.

DF: Right. And I’m not passing judgment on whether within the structure of Nike within the brand itself, the ownership of the company, but within the management of the brand, the leadership of the brand, I’m not gonna say that they do or don’t believe something. But you don’t go out there with that advertising unless you’ve had reams of research and you know what it’s going to do. I’d be shocked to think something other than that.

AK: As a publicly traded company, they have a fiduciary responsibility to monetize everything they do. And you guys have a little bit more latitude to be able to do what you want to do without having to have that public pressure, which is good. You have different public pressure.

DF: Yeah, I think that when it comes to a company and what they stand for, their values, sometimes that extends through to their philanthropy. In business, you don’t choose your customers based on values, those sorts of things. But your customers choose you based on it. So, I think that most brands generally want to have identity, would like to feel confident that they stand for something in the consumer’s eyes. It doesn’t have to be a social cause, but people understand the character of the brand, the culture of the brand, etcetera.

Again, just to wrap up, I do scratch my head when I see what some companies do in this space, in their advertising on controversial areas. Don’t buy into philanthropy, we’ll just call it a social cause, and knowing that within their consumer base, there are people who are going to look at it, a lot of things, not everything. It all depends on the topic I guess, but there’s two sides to most things. On some things, both sides can be right. On other things, only one can be right. It’s just for me, and when it comes to branding, I think a dubious place to be exerting ones self.

AK: So, I’ve got one more question for you. Do you know, I know that you’re not, for good reason, directly part of the foundation. It’s run separately, it has to be. Do you know on average, roughly, how many grant applications or requests you get and how many you give out annually?

DF: Oh, gosh, let’s see. This year alone, the dollar amount that we will have given out is in the $8-9 million dollar range. It’s gone up to where the amount of money that goes to the actual operation of the foundation is in the low single digits, very small percentage so we’re a very highly rated charity, navigator and we supplement or we actually cover a lot of the expenses of running the association ourselves from our company. Yeah, but the number of grants, I know we’re in the hundreds every year, I think the average grant request is in the range of $20-$25 thousand dollars per grant. Some much higher, it really just depends on the type of equipment being requested.

AK: Incredible. So Don, thank you for coming on Brand on Purpose. What’s the best way for our listeners to follow you, follow the foundation, follow the brand?

DF: On Facebook, Firehouse Subs, we have a Facebook page where a lot of the news about the brand is posted. ‘Course, our website, firehousesubs.com if someone’s really interested in learning more about the brand and where we operate and can even support the foundation, there are links on the main page to get over to the foundation site. And people can support us independently outside of the restaurant as well as contributing at the local restaurant themselves.

AK: And a really silly question, sorry, this is really my last question, I promise. What’s your favorite sub?

DF: These days, cause it has shifted a bit over the years, I have been very partial to The Engineer, which is smoked turkey breast and sautéed mushrooms served with what we call Fully Involved, which is mayonnaise, lettuce, tomato, onion and deli mustard, with the world’s best kosher dill pickle on the side.

AK: Yum, that’ll be my sandwich of choice as soon as I get myself to a Firehouse Subs. Thank you, again, for coming on. Thank you, again, for everything you do. And thank you for everything you do for, not just society, but also representing first responders in the greatest possible light, and shining a light on things that we all need to pay much closer attention to.

DF: Great. Thanks very much, Aaron, I enjoyed speaking with you.