SEASON 2 EPISODE 3 WITH

episode transcript +

Learn how Fracture is literally re-framing sustainability through art

A conversation with Fracture’s Abhi Lokesh

Season 2, Episode 3

Guest: Abhi Lokesh, co-founder and CEO of Fracture

AARON KWITTKEN: Broadcasting from the 10 Hudson Square Building, home of WNYC Radio here in Soho, New York, welcome to Brand on Purpose, the podcast dedicated to uncovering the untold stories behind the most impactful purpose-driven companies.

My guest today is Abhi Lokesh, co-founder and CEO of Fracture. Fracture bills itself as a high quality alternative to high priced picture frames. Prior to launching Fracture, Abhi was a college student in a social entrepreneurship class at the University of Florida. Along with classmate and future co-founder, Alex Theodore, Abhi started a non-profit art gallery, where he learned about the inefficiencies of framing photos. A few years later, they took a humanitarian trip to Swaziland and would discuss their passions, which included photography, and of course, travel, in their downtime.

After returning from the trip, Abhi felt there had been a better way to get those photos to walls and in 2009, Abhi and Alex, who took on the engineering side, put their ideas into action and founded what’s called Fracture today.

Fracture revolutionizes the photo printing process by completely ditching the frame, so instead you upload your pictures directly to its website and you receive a vibrantly rendered glass print ready to hang. On top of this easy and affordable printing, Fracture’s also achieved carbon neutrality, which is one of the reasons why I have Abhi today on our podcast. And they do this through a variety of ways, which we’ll talk about.

And with the help of a non-profit called We Are Neutral, Fracture calculates its total carbon footprint and neutralizes it through offsetting techniques like planting trees. Fracture uses solar energy as well to power the factory. I think they call it the Fractory, it’s a good dad joke but I like it, sustainable packaging and recycled glass.

Overall, the goal that Fracture is trying to achieve is to change the picture industry in a customer and environmentally friendly way. Abhi Lokesh, welcome to Brand on Purpose.

ABHI LOKESH: Thank you for having me, appreciate it.

AK: So, and I didn’t butcher your name too badly, right?

AL: No, it’s, yeah, it’s spot on.

AK: Okay, you’re just being kind. And it’s great to have you in studio as well.

AL: Sure.

AK: Alright, let’s talk about this trip to Swaziland. And, off-air earlier, we talked a little bit about the fact that Swaziland is no longer called Swaziland. People can go on Wikipedia and figure out what it’s called now, but I think it’s changed its name, but I do know it’s in South Africa. So you’re on this trip, college buddy, and just for the record, your cofounder left a few years ago. And he was responsible for, I guess, the engineering side of the product and the company?

AL: Yeah, the way I describe it is, he was responsible for everything having to do with building and shipping the product.

AK: Right, ok. Which is actually not easy.

AL: No, he had such a herculean task. It was really impressive.

AK: So, ok, so you guys are what, are hiking, doing a walkabout? What are you doing in South Africa in Swaziland? You’re like, oh we have an idea.

AL: Looking back on it now, it was a really surreal experience. We actually won a grant, a $10 thousand dollar grant from the Katherine Wasserman Foundation before our senior year to implement some, a research proposal that we had submitted. And, this was completely on a lark, right?

AK: Was it like a Shark Tank type thing? Not quite that intense.

AL: Not quite that intense. Grant writing is definitely not our forte and it was definitely something we just tried. But we were encouraged. We did it. And lo and behold, we won. And all of a sudden, in the summer of 2008, I find myself dropped in the remote countryside in Swaziland, Southern Africa and it was just a really incredible experience. It was me, Alex and a mutual classmate.

AK: What time of year was this?

AL: Summer.

AK: Summer. Ok, so this was pre-recession, but it was about to hit.

AL: It’s about to hit, yeah, right. So it’s our summer, their winter because it’s below the equator, but it was a life changing experience. And while we were there, a couple things happened. Number one, it was the summer before our senior years, right? A really interesting crossroads in our academic careers. We were trying to figure out what we wanted to do after we graduate. I was on the pre-med track and Alex was planning to go to PhD Engineering School and it just makes you stop and think.

AK: This is the ‘shit gets real’ conversation.

AL: Exactly, yeah, I was literally trying to write my personal statement and I could not and I thought that was a really telling sign. So, we were there implementing our grant proposal and me and Alex are just essentially, alone together. And you really develop a strong bond with someone who you spend thousands of hours with for multiple months.

And so, like you’d mentioned in the intro, we had a little bit of experience with e-commerce, we started a small online art gallery to fund a non-profit that we had started. And it was a unique take on non-profit revenue, right? So instead of trying to just tug on your heartstrings and I’m gonna ask you for money for donations, we’re trying to create a little bit more of a sustainable business model.

And we thought that art and digital art was having its comeuppance. The internet was firmly entrenched as a great place for people to share art, discover art, et cetera. So, we talked to artists all over the world, asked them if we could license their digital art and then we would sell it through the art gallery.

AK: So, it’s the original idea.

AL: That was the original idea, yeah. And, it was not a success. You know, we sold maybe less than 10 prints. But, we learned a couple things about host a website, how to sell something online, how to market. And one unique data point we observed was that people would buy this art but they wouldn’t hang it on their walls and the simple question was, why? This art wasn’t exactly cheap, but you figure if you spend money on something, you want to put it on your wall. And they’d say, “Oh you know, it’s just one step too far to take it out of its cardboard tube and get it on the wall, it’s kind of a pain.”

AK: To schlep it to a frame store.

AL: Yeah.

AK: And it’s expensive.

AL: It is.

AK: Really expensive.

AL: And it’s surprisingly expensive.

AK: And this is just, I’m thinking back to 2008, the iPhone had only been out a year.

AL: Just a year, yeah.

AK: I mean, think about that, it’s kind of baffling.

AL: It is, because right now, we think it’s been around forever and it’s basically joined to our hips at all times. So, when we were in Africa, during the summer of 2008, I was just reflecting with Alex on the couple of data points we’d gathered from our little venture. And, to your point, the iPhone had just launched a year ago, but it was quickly becoming adopted as, along with smartphones in general, as the main photo taking device in the world, right?

And so you kind of saw a couple of macroeconomic trends. People were taking more and more pictures than ever before. Smartphones were getting faster, higher resolution, better quality yet cheaper, which is a great combination. And so, you start to see these digital imaging revolutions groups, where people were taking billions, trillions of photos, yet fewer and fewer were actually getting printed and framed. And so it was a really interesting paradox and we thought there was a unique opportunity for us to revolutionize photo framing, to actually motivate people to want to print and frame their favorite digital images.

AK: And also, you had not the arrival, but I think the beginning of the momentum behind Facebook, as well.

AL: Yeah, so, it’s funny, right? People were interacting with their photos in ways never previously before thought of, right? So they’re sharing, editing, commenting on, et cetera. So the entirety of the photo lifestyle is being disrupted, except for that very last step, which is printing. Printing still seemed to be stuck in the 1800s where photo framing really hasn’t changed in 150 years. And we thought that that was odd and it was kind of time to try to crack that nut.

AK: And how did you educate yourself on the printing and framing part in order to remove the obstacles that seem so obvious to us today, but they were becoming more obvious back then. I mean, we’re talking, what, 11 years ago, right?

AL: Yeah, 11 years ago.

AK: Because, like you said earlier, it’s complex, right? There’s a supply chain, there’s manufacturing, there’s shipping. I’m sure you also had your issues in the prototype stage.

AL: Totally.

AK: Right?

AL: Yeah. It was a comedic trial and error process where we just stumbled our way through figuring out the entire supply chain and this is where I’ll give my cofounder, Alex, a ton of credit. He really took the burden and responsibility of figuring out what sort of printers we would use, the supply chain of ink, understanding what material we wanted to work with, how we decided to settle on glass, printing on glass, who had done it and also thinking about the marketing, the branding, the e-commerce. It seemed like we basically took on this complete vertically integrated operation before vertical integration was really a thing, it just meant we did everything on our own.

AK: Right. Unless you’re McDonald’s. They’re the first, right?

AL: We really don’t like to compare ourselves to them.

AK: No, of course not. But, did you have to reach out to experts and material scientists and people who once worked at, I don’t know, Corning and Kodak and some of these old school old line companies to get a better understanding of how you can put these materials together?

AL: We did and there’s this interesting conversation that takes place when you suggest something novel to someone who’s a bit of an established expert and there’s this, “Oh no, that can’t be done,” or, “We just don’t see those two parts fitting together.” And that’s just really been the story of our lives. It was just a constant kind of running into brick walls and us realizing that we have to figure it out on our own.

AK: And was there a breakthrough moment or multiple breakthrough moments that you decided, wow we can actually do this, there’s still potential gating factors to success but, what were those moments?

AL: It was a ladder, right? So there wasn’t one breakthrough or aha moment, I honestly don’t know if there ever truly is. For us, it was this organic series of moments that led to really us coming back from Swaziland in the fall, now of 2008, we just started our senior years and I remember Alex showing up to my doorstep in the house that I was living in and presenting me with the first piece of glass that he had printed on, that he had prototyped on.

What he had done was, he had literally gone to Office Depot, gerry rigged an inkjet printer that you would find in a dorm room, tore it apart, force fed it a piece of glass, worked his MacGyver magic, and showed me the first prototype. And the resolution, the quality, was stunning, and I thought to myself, this is real, like we can do this, and I was just so impressed and I felt like there was something really there.

AK: Wow. That’s amazing to be able to partner with someone who has that level of skill. And like you said, MacGyver the whole thing.

AL: Yeah, he is the MacGyver of our times, for sure.

AK: And did you put the first $10,000 against that? Or, had you already used it on the original idea?

AL: Yeah, so I had worked at a neuroscience company while I was in college, I had saved up around $700 and that’s what I put towards the original prototyping. One thing we realized very quickly about this sort of venture is that it was very capital intensive. So as soon as we saw that we had the inklings of success with the first prototypes, we realized immediately we needed cash.

But this is where timing really backfired against us. This was, to your point, 2008, the beginning of the recession. I wasn’t even 21 when I graduated college, I never had a job, I had zero credit to speak of and I could not even get qualified, pre-qualified for a credit card.

It was really hard and, ultimately, I went to the one source that I new I had the best shot at: my parents and my dad. And we pitched to my father and his weekend stock-picking buddies as an angel investment. And it was incredibly nerve-wracking. I begged him not to look at me as his son, but as an investment opportunity, and they really questioned us and put us through our paces.

AK: I’m sure they grilled you.

AL: They did.

AK: And does your dad have a background in any of this?

AL: He’s a pediatrician, so, no. But, he’s always had a bit of an entrepreneurial spirit himself and he really just encouraged me to kind of shoot for the moon and it was a really great opportunity, I’m super thankful for it.

AK: My guess is, my late father was a physician, as well, and he actually discouraged me from going into medicine. Only because, at the time, he passed actually in 2008, but at the time, he saw so many changes and, even from then to now, there’s so many changes if you look at the health care system, and he really tried to dissuade me. My sister ended up being a pediatrician, actually.

AL: Oh wow. Very cool. Yeah.

AK: And was the sustainability component always kind of front and center, at least part of the plan, knowing how not only capitally intensive but environmentally intensive this process would be?

AL: Always. It was always on the forefront of our minds. And we tried to insert it in every element of the product as we could. A great example is our packaging, which again, Alex masterminded. Unlike a lot of the packaging that you get from Amazon or really anywhere else that’s shipping a fragile good. And you can imagine that shipping a piece of glass is a very delicate endeavor.

But there are no packing peanuts in our packaging, there’s no bubble wrap, there’s no fluff paper. It’s literally a piece of glass and a paper insert in 100% recycled cardboard packaging. So, we had to custom design and engineer this packaging to be both sturdy but also really experiential and environmentally friendly.

AK: Were you inspired by the design thinking and industrial design movement by Apple at the time?

AL: Yeah, we were and are huge Apple fanboys. I think we really took their lead in thinking about wanting to build a beginning-to-end brand and a company that prided itself on the details and the little things. We really admired a lot about what Apple brought to the consumer forefront.

AK: How hard was it to find a third party supplier that met your sustainability goals but also the efficacy of the packaging and making sure that the sanctity of the product, you know, everything arrived the way that you wanted to in terms of the customer experience?

AL: It was very hard, primarily because we had no leverage. We couldn’t dictate that we would be shipping the sort of volume. We didn’t even know the sort of volume we would be shipping. So a lot of this was really manual work on behalf of Alex and we really had to bootstrap it and not have the luxury of having suppliers that really understood us. We really had to kind of connect many disparate dots to make it work for us.

AK: So this is your first job, technically. Where are you getting your mentorship from? I mean, I believe in self-mentorship, but that goes only so far. But it’s always nice to have somebody to bounce ideas off of. Clearly your dad has been inspirational and has helped support and be an original backer and that’s awesome. And, actually not a lot of parents will do that, so that’s amazing. Where else are you getting either inspiration or mentorship from?

AL: I try to draw inspiration from a number of different sources. I definitely read a lot. It’s been incredibly instrumental in providing me perspective, humility, a certain amount of appreciation for, even, even when I’m going through the tough times realizing just how much better I have it than 99.9% of the rest of the world. And in Gainesville, to my very pleasant surprise, there was always a small, tiny community of CEOs and company founders who took me under their wing and encouraged me, really believed in me. Rich Blazer of Infinite Energy is an energy utility company in town. Just their generosity was really meaningful.

AK: How many rounds of funding have you been through since its inception?

AL: So, we had an angel round and then a Series A round, but that’s it. We’ve raised about $2 million dollars since inception. That’s actually one of the things we take pride in and if I’m honest, it’s one of the things that I really developed a chip on my shoulder about because, listen, I wanted to raise a ton more money because I thought that’s what success meant. I thought success meant raising a ton more money.

AK: So your goal is to be cash-generative and self-sufficient, right?

AL: It wasn’t always. It was, I think I developed a little maturity from being kicked in the teeth so many times from investors who said, “Yeah, we’re not interested in this or that.” Again, I developed this chip on my shoulder to prove to them that I don’t need your money. We don’t need your money. We can do this on our own. And now, I look back on it and think it was an incredible blessing in disguise because otherwise I think I would have been terribly spoiled and maybe never got off the hamster wheel of raising money, burning through it, raising money, burning through it.

AK: Your mettle’s never really tested until someone pushes back on you and you’re able to face some level of either threat or adversity or challenges that seem insurmountable, right?

AL: Absolutely. Yeah.

AK: Just talk me through how the offsets work in carbon neutrality. So, to my understanding, you’re pursuing this offset model where, for example, you can plant trees to offset whatever carbon you’re putting into the environment through the manufacturing process, but you also have solar paneling, and well, there’s ways that you’re powering your, was I right, before in calling it the Fractory? You’re calling it the Fractory?

AL: Yes.

AK: Or am I just being Dad-jokey.

AL: No, that’s an endearing term that we use for our offices, yeah.

AK: I love stuff like that.

AL: Yeah.

AK: So, how does all that stuff work?

AL: So, I think the first thing we consider is that we don’t want to use carbon offsets as a crutch.

AK: Or as a marketing ploy.

AL: Exactly. We don’t want to also use an excess just because we know we can erase it by purchasing carbon offsets. We try to be very environmentally thoughtful from the ground up. So, like you mentioned, the new facility that we moved into, a 30,000 square foot facility that is fully powered by solar power. So that’s one part of it.

Additionally, because we do use glass, we recycle every bit of our waste glass. We actually pay to have it shipped to a regional facility to have it recycled because there’s not a huge market for it and we believe in the importance of that. Additionally, we use 100% recycled cardboard packaging for our products and lastly, on the back end, once all of our travel is accounted for, once all of our utilities are accounted for, then we’re able to crunch the numbers by an equation with which we are neutral to determine, ok, of what we did use in energy, what can we offset with carbon credits?

AK: It’s very trackable then. You have KPI’s.

AL: Yes. It’s still a nacient process. We’re still getting better at it every quarter, every year. But the goal here is to keep getting better at tracking it.

AK: Outside of framing, if I’m saying that correctly, are there other line extensions or product that you’re looking at as well for the company, or do you feel like there’s still so much more market left on the framing side.

AL: Yes, to both. There’s so much runway left for the current product. I think one of the things I constantly get surprised at is we live in our own fishbowl, where we think everyone in the world knows about Fracture, but the honest truth is, very few people still do so there’s a ton of opportunity left. But we don’t want to be known as a glass printing company, right? We want to be known as a photo décor brand, so we think it’s really important for us to, in a thoughtful, curated way, to extend the product line. But now we feel like we’ve developed a really good playbook over the past decade with the first product that we can utilize for other products down the line.

AK: Are the majority of your sales in North America, or are they global?

AL: The majority of our sales are in North America. We do have a lot of demand internationally, but it’s interesting, the hardest part is the shipping costs. It costs more to ship a Fracture to Australia than it does to actually buy a Fracture. And that’s not an equation that’s customer friendly.

AK: And you haven’t figured that one out yet.

AL: Not necessarily. We know that, honestly, it’s only a matter of time before we consider things like international expansion or partnering with third parties overseas to be able to get closer to our customers. That’s ultimately the goal.

AK: And who do you consider your main competition, the old way of doing things?

AL: Yeah, the old way of doing things and, honestly, just apathy, right? I have a four-month old, a five-month old, and I’ve taken literally 5,000 pictures, but I do nothing with them. And it’s kind of like a cobbler’s kids have no shoes phenomenon where I should have tons of Fractures on my wall, but I don’t because I'm busy keeping up with a five-month old and running a company. That disconnect is really the biggest barrier between us and reaching critical success.

AK: And I know that you originally started off on this neuroscience, pre-med track, right? But clearly there’s kind of an artist and a designer and there’s like aesthetic somewhere in you, otherwise you wouldn’t have started this company. That had to have been in you as you were growing up. Or maybe it was just this latent thing and it’s just now come out, right?

AL: I’ve reflected on that a lot. Because a lot of people ask me the same question about entrepreneurship. Like oh, you must’ve been a natural born entrepreneur, you must’ve been business savvy from the very beginning and honestly, I don’t believe I was a natural born entrepreneur. Again, I know my father encouraged me to be a dreamer, that’s very true. I read so much that I think I have a pretty vivid imagination, and when the opportunity for something like Fracture came about, my internal compass just said, there’s so much to gain out of this opportunity and med school will always be there. A mantra that me and my cofounder used was, we will never have more to gain and less to lose than at this moment in life. And that was a pretty powerful north star for us to follow.

AK: Are you a first generation American?

AL: Yes.

AK: Right, so my mom is an immigrant, my father’s from Indiana but his father was from Ukraine. But I do think, and I’ve had a bunch of people on who are first generation Americans, and I’m like, I guess a half of one, right? But I do think that there’s something kind of unique and different about being able to dream and not be ring fenced and follow your passion. It sounds so cheesy and cliché but there’s something there, right? Am I’m sure you felt that, too.

AL: Yeah, especially because of my upbringing which was a little unique. I was born in Saudi Arabia, moved to India, London, Brooklyn and then Florida. I had the opportunity at a very young age to be exposed to a lot of different cultures and, honestly, see how the rest of the world lived. And again, it ingrained in me this deep sense of appreciation for where I am and what we have. And again, to have the resources to be able to try something and have the backing and love and support of my family and having someone like Alex, that doesn’t come around a lot and you got to take advantage of those opportunities.

AK: And you have siblings?

AL: I have one sister who is also a doctor. So my mother, father and sister are all doctors. I am the black sheep of the family.

AK: Very similar to my family. That’s really funny. And just in terms of gratitude, so obviously being a parent forever changes you. I always tell people, getting married, well, that’s something but, once you’re a parent? I'm about to send my first off to college. That’s in a week.

AL: Oh, wow. Congrats.

AK: That’s tough, right? That’s a moment and being a parent fundamentally changes you and you have this enormous gratitude like you’ve never had before.

AL: Absolutely.

AK: Where else, in your life outside of Fracture, are you finding purpose and meaning? Is it through meditation? Is it through sports? Is it through awesome podcasts like this, like, how else do you balance yourself?

AL: I try to stay active. Having a healthy lifestyle is, I think, one of the biggest ways that I find to de-stress. And again, it’s the little things in terms of just being grateful to have the ability to workout and push myself and then switch gears and walk into an office that I had the fortune of creating, you know? And so, the lifestyle that I’ve built for myself, again, with the help of so many others has been, just really empowering. And so, from working out, to the books to just honestly, just staring at my kid is just one of the most powerful motivators to want to built a world for him to live in where he can be anything he wants to be and can have my full unadulterated support is really all I want. And so, it’s really powerful.

AK: And, do you find it hard to recruit in Gainesville?

AL: Incredibly hard. This is such a coincidental topic that we’re discussing. It is incredibly hard and I can’t tell you how many times I've suffered from FOMO or the grass is greener syndrome thinking that if we were in New York, or we were in Boston…

AK: Where the grass isn’t all burnt out and painful to walk on.

AL: Exactly. I talk to other founders and there like, “Yes there’s more talent here but it’s constantly being poached.” There’s so many good companies. So, we’ve committed to being an onsite, local company, and I think, again, another chip on my shoulder, to prove that we can build a world-class company in a place like Gainesville, Florida is very motivating for me.

AK: How important is it for your staff to know that there is a sustainability message that, it’s a sustainable company, that there’s a vision behind it? It’s more than just trying to put glass frames on a wall.

AL: Yeah, it’s really important, specifically because I think the audience we’re talking to, in terms of our employees, they’re of a generational mindset that really values mission and vision and values. So, we try to keep this front and center. And I think the biggest thing, Aaron, is just being transparent. I haven’t figured everything out and we talk about our challenges and our trials and tribulations and instead of trying to put everything behind a corporate façade, being vulnerable and being earnest and showing your battle scars is really helpful in connecting with your employees.

AK: Agreed. And so what does the five-year plan look like at this point?

AL: Yeah, so the five-year plan is to, first thing, get settled in our new facility, which is…

AK: Oh, congrats!

AL: Thank you, it’s been a complete sea change and it feels like we’re just gearing up for the second act of Fracture. Like I’d mentioned, we’re planning on rolling out a couple of new products and product additions. And then, really it’s continuing to, I just feel like we have our feet underneath us. And so, the name of the game is to expand and drive brand awareness in terms of letting people know who we are.

AK: And what’s been, I don’t know if it’s the single, but one of the leading most successful campaigns or programs you’ve put in place for brand awareness, I mean, I’m on Instagram all the time and I’m such a sucker for all the Instagram marketing especially the quick explainer videos or whatever, I’m buying shit all the time. It’s bad. Even though I know I’m getting taken, but I imagine that Instagram is a very natural place for you guys. Or maybe, because it’s too natural, I’m thinking about it too simplistically. But what’s working from a marketing standpoint?

AL: Yeah, you know this is one of those questions that if you had asked me ten years ago, I would have had an answer and I would have been completely wrong. So, TV is our best channel, and I would have never seen that coming. But it makes all the sense in the world given that our product is unique and it needs explaining, and next to actually showing you a Fracture, the best thing to do is have video medium where I can hold it, rotate it, show you the slim profile, take it out of the box, etc. And TV really allowed for that.

AK: So, are you skewing a little older in your target, in your audience? Is it more Gen X and Boomers or are you also seeing Millennials or do you not have that kind of data. You must have that kind of data.

AL: We do have some and I think our ideal demographic, we do personal analyses and I’m sure you’re familiar with those. Our ideal personas are the older Millennials, younger Gen-Xers, but it’s interesting…

AK: Of which I’m neither, so, but I can identify.

AL: Let me be transparent, though, if you look at our website traffic, there’s a almost 4-way tie between 25-34, 34-44, 44-54 and 55+ and I think the biggest reason is because photos are transcendental and digital images don’t really stick to a particular demo. Everyone’s taking photos. My mother has an iPhone, my grandmother has a smartphone, I mean, they’re ingrained in society.

AK: In part, I ask only because of your comment about TV. I just look at my own kids who are 18 and 15 and they don’t watch TV, they stream and they’ll use it as a monitor through an HDMI cable to stream things cause they just want a bigger screen, but their not watching commercials, right?

AL: Right. In that instance, I think TV’s also evolving. So instead of just linear TV which is the TV we think about, there’s also now digital streaming service which we’re experimenting with. But, at the end of the day, we stumbled into TV because we were featured randomly on a segment and we just started seeing the visitor spikes. And we just tried to capture that lightning in a bottle and make that a formula.

AK: And, of course, advertising on podcasts, it’s like, Mailchimp is everywhere, you know? And the resurgence of radio and like you said, streaming, I mean, the mix is so different now.

AL: It is. It feels like you have to be everywhere. And I think that’s one of the other things we’re dealing with and you can attest to this, anyone that’s a consumer can attest to this. The landscape is so noisy that to be able to rise above it and represent something that people actually want, I think you have to be incredibly authentic and that’s why things like podcasts really help because the host we try to imbue a sense of connection with the host, every host gets Fractured, every host talks about their own product, that’s what we feel we have to do to connect the dots.

AK: You know, I think that makes a lot of sense and the other thing that’s interesting is, and I’m not just saying this, you have a very unique product. It’s not like you’re going into a well established hyper competitive category per se, no pun intended, it is fractured because you’re actually competing against a lot of the mom-and-pop framing shops and any other online traditional framing services but in a far more modern and progressive and turn key and, obviously, sustainable way.

That in and of itself has its own challenges because it’s still kind of new. And thinking about it, you’ve been going at it for more than a decade, I mean, you’re really a head of your time. I feel like probably the majority, and you’re going to grow twice as fast the next five years as you have the next ten years. That’s my guess. That’s my guess.

AL: Let’s hope you’re right. Let’s make that plan.

AK: Right, right. Well, listen, it was awesome having you on and just remind our guests, how do we find Fracture?

AL: You can visit us at fracture.me, and we’re very active on social so Instagram, Twitter, Facebook, you can come check us out and hang out.

AK: Awesome. Thanks again for coming in.

AL: Of course, appreciate it.

AK: K.

AL: Thanks, man.